Interview:
Zvi Mowshowitz on the Future of Netrunner

by Jens Kreutzer, with Douglas Kaufman

Zvi, for a couple of months, you have been hosting an alternate Netrunner discussion list on Yahoo!, which you use to get input from other Netrunner players about how to best bring about a revival of our favorite game - namely, getting the printing press to run again. Could you perhaps sum up once more what exactly your plans for the future are?

My plan for the future is to revive Netrunner as a full-fledged CCG. The first project will probably be an expansion, designed to be a good companion to the basic set for Sealed-Deck and to shake up Constructed. At the same time, I'll implement the other fixes necessary to solve Constructed's problems and to lay the groundwork for future templating and ideas. It's also very possible that there will be preconstructed decks, which may take cards from anywhere.

Like any CCG, Netrunner has game balance problems and interactions that don't work properly. It's probably one of those with the smallest such problems, but they still need to be fixed. Look at the standard tournament format: It's amazing to think that a game can be healthy with virtually no restrictions on what players can play. After fixing a few additional cards, it looks like the only restrictions on deck construction we'll need are the 45 card minimum and the Corporation agenda requirement. On the other hand, it may also be advantageous to remove cards that were too powerful, to improve game balance when a revised basic set is reprinted at some point. There would be more expansions, assuming the game did well enough to finance them.

The other major missions from a design perspective are to find a way if possible for Netrunner to function as a multiplayer game or as a game where both sides can bring the same deck, and possibly to build a fully functional computer version. Work has already begun on the computer version (it will at least be a huge help in playtesting and tournaments like World Domination, which had to be played over IRC last time) and on possible multiplayer rules. If the multiplayer game proves good enough, there could even be a multiplayer expansion, which for now I'm codenaming Corporate War. All of this of course combines with the problems of advertising, distribution and all the other issues dealing with selling a CCG. I know much less about that end, so I'm still learning.

It all seems to be a bit like the knight in shining armor who comes to the rescue - like in a fairytale. If you pull this off, everybody involved will probably be as happy as the happy end in a fairytale, accordingly. It is only the more astounding since you haven't been that present in the Netrunner scene in the past. Could you maybe tell our readers something about yourself?

I'm 22, currently a senior at Columbia University. I've been a professional Magic: The Gathering player for a few years, and I've always thought I'd join WotC's R&D someday. The layoffs, however, were a clear message that I would be graduating at the wrong time for that. I used to play Netrunner at Neutral Ground, where we had a local group that included Sideboard Netrunner writer Matt Blank and World Domination runner-up Rick Cripe. The game held on strong in New York until WotC decided to stop printing expansions, at which point things wound down, without any hope of new cards or, because of that, for new players.

The other day, I read a Magic article on the WotC webpage that was written by you, and a couple of years ago, I even heard of a "Zvi deck" that was very famous in the Magic community. (That was you, wasn't it?) All of this adds up to the impression that you must be quite a successful and experienced Magic player. How come you're now giving that much effort to revive a game that has been called "dead" all too often?

I would consider myself one of the more successful professional Magic players, in the top 20 in lifetime earnings and designer of many of Magic's top decks. I also write on a regular basis for both WotC itself (at www.sideboard.com) and for Mindripper (at magic.mindripper.com). Together, the writing, deckbuilding and doing well have made me one of the most well-known Magic players. But the truth is, no matter how much work a player may want to do preparing for Magic tournaments (and often it seems like there aren't enough hours in the day for it), there will be long stretches of time both in the day and in the year when there's little productive to do. With so much free time, it makes sense to try and find a second job. I loved Netrunner from the point when I learned how to play to the point when I stopped playing because there were only three of us left in New York. The deck you heard about was probably my old Dream Halls-based deck called TurboZvi, which was really cool, but a description of it would be beyond what probably should be the scope of this interview.

As for why I'm doing so much to revive Netrunner, there are several reasons. One is that it allows me to get training in game design without working directly for WotC, which would prevent me from participating in future Pro Tours. Another is that Netrunner is still the best CCG out there, and definitely didn't deserve the fate it received the first time around. A third is that the game is an amazing opportunity - there's a ton of people who don't play anymore but still remember that it was a great game, and Wizards has already dealt with most of the game's fixed costs. A fourth is that I have a high-enough profile to make the Magic community wake up and look at the game again when it does come back. A fifth is that I have the reputation with Wizards to pull off the deal and took the initiative to do it. If not me, then who?

And the game is only dead because WotC doesn't have the time to bother with what it considers small potatoes. Netrunner would have been a success for anyone else. If I can just win back a substantial portion of its previous player base, that alone would be enough to pay for the game's continued life through as many expansions as it has in it. Wizards really does "print money," and when overprinting that money caused inflation, they bailed on us. Shame on them.

How did you start playing Netrunner, and why did you think it was attractive?

I started playing Netrunner back when the game was first released. I forget who taught me the game, but it might well have been Rick Cripe. Netrunner has a lot of features I really like. One is the things you can do without any cards. Magic games are often decided by mana screw or bad draws. In Netrunner, bad draws of course still happen, but they only force players to spend time drawing cards or to get their bits less efficiently. There's still a game to be played. There's a ton more skill in Netrunner play than Magic for the most part. There are players I can beat consistently from both sides with the same two sealed decks, and two players I know of that can do the same back to me. The mathematical aspect of the game is really attractive to me. The structure of the game lets players do almost anything for a price - the Runner can do anything he wants if he has the bits to, and by implication, the actions. The Corporation's cards can do just about anything for a price except search.

Let's talk about your project once again. You seem to go about it in a very professional way - how did you approach Wizards and actually get somebody to listen to you?

Believe it or not, I basically just came out and asked. I didn't think there was a very good chance WotC would agree, but after the layoffs and the announcement that they were getting rid of all their CCGs except Pokemon and Magic, I figured there was no harm in asking the question. So I wrote a very polite formal e-mail introducing myself and noting my background and asking whether they would be willing to sell Netrunner. I got back a Yes, and the rest was just logically following up as I figured things out as I went along.

Since we're dealing with a company here, I guess it's all a league of its own as far as finances are concerned. Without being specific, what are the general costs of a project like this?

The costs are significant, but actually less than the number I was hoping for when I first asked. It's not the kind of thing a random player can just decide to go out and do, but it's not an unusually rough business to gain entry to in terms of startup costs. In addition, having a lot of the fixed costs already paid for by WotC is a huge help.

Would you get permission to use all original artwork as well? If you did a reprint of old cards, would they look exactly the same as before (apart from errata that would probably be implemented)?

Old cards would look virtually the same as before except where they're changed, and obviously that will be kept to a minimum unless it's decided that many of them should get better. The decision to weaken the "mistake" cards by changing numbers and make the changes retroactive in Battletech outright killed the game, and I'm not about to repeat that. If the numbers change on any cards, it will be for the better if there's any choice in the matter. The art will stay the same, assuming the artists give their permission (if the contracts have expired; WotC is looking into that), but that shouldn't be a problem.

What's R. Talsorian's stance in the current discussion?

R. Talsorian is more than happy to go along with the deal. A revived Netrunner can only help them, and they're taking no risk.

If you had complete control and no input from anyone else, what would you release first?

Well, it's too late for that, I already have a good deal of input. If I didn't, I wouldn't feel comfortable releasing anything but a new version of the basic set. Instead, I've already gotten several views of Constructed and what needs to be printed, and I hope to see more. I also have at least one expansion to draw from.

Have you thought about rereleasing Netrunner as a non-CCG game? It is conceivable, after all, to market it as a basic set with set contents, and then offer "expansion packs" with set contents as well (such as a set called "Walls", with Data Masons, Superior Net Barriers, etc., and all walls that weren't in the basic set, for example). In Germany, a card game called Die Siedler (The Settlers of Catan) has tried this and turned into a big hit. Since there is no card limit in Netrunner, people would probably buy multiples of those sets anyway, but had control over what they got. Trading would still be possible. And - there could be special "tournament" packs sorted randomly and specifically tailored for the needs of Sealed or booster draft tournaments. This would eliminate the single most common argument I've heard from people who tried Netrunner, found it great, and then didn't take it up: "I can't afford another money-sink CCG in addition to Magic." Any comments on this? (This idea comes from Daniel Schneider originally.)

That's the nightmare scenario: Netrunner fails as a CCG, so instead it's issued in non-collectible form. I think the game is actually good enough to be worth playing strictly as a game, especially if the decks are predesigned and balanced for maximum play value. But it's much better and richer (and more profitable) to publish it as a CCG. As for the complaint that "I can't afford another CCG right now," I agree that this is a concern for many players, but to them I say they should simply play limited or other future formats that don't require the investment of true unlimited Constructed. Netrunner is by far the best sealed-deck game in existence. If a player gets enough cards from their sealed decks to move on to constructed, so much the better. But selling sets is basically admitting defeat.

The Settlers as I understand it plays from a common deck in a multiplayer setting. That's a whole different type of card game. The best parallel for this situation would be Illuminati: New World Order. That was an interesting but horribly broken game, so much so that I was able to create a deck that wins almost every game on turn two (die rolls are involved, I have to not roll multiple 11s or 12s on 2d6) using only the One With Everything box. Still, playing that game with common decks is great fun if you strip the bad cards out and just play with the strong half of the set. Otherwise the bad cards just sit around doing nothing. Finally, because I'm trying to get into a designer's frame, of course there wouldn't be expansions with subjects like "big walls," because that implies the game is still being played primarily in Constructed format.

The Settlers as a card game plays one-on-one just like Netrunner, but I agree that a CCG is preferable as long as it is viable. Have you looked at other people's "virtual expansions"? Did you like any of them?

I've only looked at one, Neal's expansion Dangerous Allies, which is owned by WotC and which I therefore will own when I get the game itself. There's a very simple reason for this: I don't want my head filled with great ideas that I can't use because they're not mine. I keep hearing great things about R.I.P, but I keep telling everyone not to tell me about anything in it. If the designers are willing to grant me the rights, I will gladly take a look at other people's virtual expansions. There are certain cards that will have to be printed to fix specific problems and I'll handle those, but beyond that I'm sure that I'm not the only one coming up with good ideas.

As for the one I have seen, Dangerous Allies is a very interesting expansion with a lot of good concepts in it. I wouldn't publish it as it stands right now, but given some development I think the set would be a worthy addition to the game. I strongly suspect that by the time I have to fill out the slots in the first expansion that aren't for dedicated metagame fixes, I'll be swamped with cards I want to print.

Anyone working with you behind the scenes?

I have my discussion group, at the group NetrunnerRnD; for those interested, the URL is groups.yahoo.com/group/NetrunnerRnD, and anyone who wants to can join in. Alan Comer is helping to produce a possible computerized version, and I can't thank Jennifer Clarke Wilkes enough for her help. There are many others already helping out as well.

Apart from Magic and Netrunner, do you play other CCGs (or RPGs)? What are your favorites?

I used to play AD&D, but my group fell apart and I haven't played in years. At various times I was into a bunch of different CCGs. I played Jyhad in a league, back when it was still called Jyhad, but even with 200 cards per person before trading, we still broke that game into pieces. I played Battletech for a while, and I really liked that game. I even made it to the Top 8 of the 1998 Battletech worlds, but shortly after that they changed the game's look and what many of the cards do and the game flat-out died on the spot. That was a shame, and if I succeed with Netrunner, I might look into that game again.

I played Babylon 5 with a group of friends for a few months, but it wasn't very consumer-friendly, and only the fact that it was multiplayer and that our group was friendly kept it balanced at all. It was probably the best game made by designers with absolutely no clue about how to run a game. When my cards got stolen along with my Magic collection, I didn't feel like spending enough money to get back in. I've also played both of Decipher's games, Star Trek and Star Wars, but right now I don't play anything but Netrunner and Magic.

Sounds rather familiar to me (apart from the stolen cards, knock on wood). Is there anything you'd like to say to the Netrunner community as a whole?

If everything goes well over the next few months, the future of this game will be in my hands and in the hands of the Netrunner community. When the time comes, it will be vital that we spread the word and help get people to try the game again. Until then, it's important that I get as much information as possible on all fronts to help me make the decisions that will shape the game. In your experience, what's dominant in Constructed and why? What would be dominant in a format where card access isn't an issue? Who has the edge in Sealed and why? What kind of Sealed and Constructed do you play? What problems does the game need to fix? Then there are the practical questions. What's the Netrunner situation in your area? How many boxes could I expect to sell in total in your area, so I know what size print run to use? What size should the expansions and basic set be? What would be determining factors in getting new players or getting back or keeping old ones? What new cards are you dying to see in print that you've come up with?

The best place to give feedback on these questions would be the Yahoo! discussion group mentioned above. Zvi, thank you very much indeed for your time, and even more for your efforts to save Netrunner!